Moving a singer in Rotation

[Steve Lynch]

Hi Dave, I know you answered this, but It does not work for me..

Please tell what if anything I'm not doing wrong.. I read the Wiki, and followed your directions..

In regular rotation view, I try to drag a singer.. it won't move..

so next I hit the # column sorter once, then again, to put them back in the proper order

At this point, it allows me to drag a singer...

I drag and drop it on top of the singer I want to put it before... it just springs back to it's original position.

I have tried to drop precisely on top of the other singer, to the side,etc... absolutely nothing I do allows me to move a singer in rotation.

I just have to play them out of order all night..

Is there a way that I could have locked the column or something?

no matter what, following your directions to the absolute letter do not yield favorable results..

Thanks man!

[Sedge]

Singer re-ordering doesn't happen in the Rotation screen!

It happens in the "KJ Rotation" screen.

Yes, I had some issues getting this sorted when I started using this software too - this part doesn't seem the most intuitive to start with, but it helps to try and think of the "Rotation" screen as the end result of any changes you have made elsewhere - adding songs to singers, messing about with their Tonight playlists, changing the KJ Rotation screen, changing the artist for the song to Last, First (something else you can't do in the rotation screen), and plenty of other changes that you make elsewhere in the software.

About the only things you can actually DO in the Rotation screen is change song pitch or tempo, and change the version of the song you are playing, if you have a couple versions and perfect metatdata. You also have Play/Pause/Cue control from the Rotation screen, which is mostly what you'll use it for, aside from announcing the next singer.

Now, from the 'KJ Rotation' rotation screen, you can make order changes, switch between songs on a singer's Tonight list (if they want to sing something other than the song that is up next for them), change Pitch & Tempo, and probably a few other things I've not tried. (You can't change song info from this screen either, just from Library and playlist screens)

So, general workflow becomes:
1. Add songs to singer via your preferred method in the playlists (Library, Singer sub-lists, or custom lists)
2. make Pitch/Tempo adjustments to song in Rotation
3. make any singer order adjustments in KJ Rotation
4. Go back to Rotation for song controls (play/pause/cue) and announcing.

Notes:
- step 2 doesn't come up that often for me, and even better, the singer's history retains pitch/tempo? changes so if you're adding from their history or favorites list, you won't have to change pitch/tempo every time they sing that song.
- step 3 doesn't have to happen either, if you just let kJams manage the rotation the way it wants. You can skip an absent singer easy enough in Rotation, and new singers get added to the end of the main list. I tend to sometimes bump up my new singers, especially if we've just rolled over the beginning of the rotation and it would be a while before they could sing their first song. How fair is this to those who are already in the rotation and have sung? Well, who said I was fair! Still, you can run a show with never looking at the KJ Rotation screen.

So, Dave's thing about being sorted by # is true, but he meant in reference to the KJ Rotation screen, not the regular Rotation screen. (Although logically, both should be sorted by #).

[Steve Lynch]

Thanks, the wiki doesn't say "every screen except the rotation", it says any screen.. that's why I was confused..

so can you sort of explain the kj rotation view?

i tried that, but it doesn't seem to re-order the songs in the rotation...

like If I'm next in rotation, and my name is at the top, and I go to KJ rotation, and move me to the bottom, my song is still at the top of the rotation..

do you have to play a song or something to get it to kick in?

Thanks for your help by the way...

[Sedge]

The KJ Rotation is a bit relative.

First, look at who is singing next in the Rotation screen - let's say it's Andy.

Now, look at your KJ Rotation screen. Andy is listed somewhere down in the middle, let's say 7th. After him in #8 is Carl.

So, if you wanted to move yourself (Steve) to sing next after Andy, you would drag your name to the 8th position, on top of Carl.
Now, go back to your Rotation screen - it should show Andy, then Steve, then Carl.

Now, since in your example, you are at the top of the rotation, meaning position 1, or singing currently (in most cases, when a Rotation is playing, the song pre-loads, so even if you haven't hit Play on yourself, you're still Cued, therefore currently singing) - if you move yourself anywhere in the KJ Rotation, you will still be currently singing. Depending on where you move yourself, the other singers up next may move around a little bit, but that's it. KJ Rotation isn't for moving the current singer, instead you move other singers around that singer. If you just want to skip yourself, click the >> button, and the next singer in rotation will get pre-loaded, and you will drop to the bottom of the list in the Rotation screen. (Your position in the KJ Rotation doesn't change, and never will, unless you a) drag and move it yourself or b) mark yourself as Not Here, then mark yourself as Here in the Venue screen)

So, the order in the Rotation screen is relative to the master order in the KJ Rotation screen. Say Andy is singing, and you want to skip Carl this time by. In the KJ Rotation, you can just drag his name on top of Andy's, and he will be in position 7, Andy will be in position 8, and you will be in position 9. Now, since Andy is currently singing, the rotation will show Andy, Steve, anyone who is in positions 10 and on, then those in positions 1-6 on the KJ Rotation screen. After Steve gets done with his song and the singer in position 10 sings, you could move Carl back on top of position 10 in the KJ Rotation, and he would be skipped for exactly one rotation.

Now, same scenario, but Steve is now position 9 is the last singer in the KJ Rotation. You want to move Carl back to position 9, where he was. After Steve sings, the rotation moves back to position 1 on the KJ Rotation. Now, you would move Carl on top of Steve, which puts him in position 8. Then move Steve on top of Carl, which puts Steve back in position 8, and Carl in position 9. Order restored.

It's really best to create a list of 5-6 singers with a couple songs each, then start playing around with scenarios like the ones I described above - on your own time. It's not very complicated once you get a feel for it. You can scrub the playhead forward (drag the song position icon to the right) in the top control window so you don't have to wait through full songs, and it won't hurt to play with different options for pre-loading songs, and your >>, autocue, and other control buttons as well. I still tend to mute my sound when starting a rotation from stop, because I'm never quite sure if it's going to auto-cue the song (skipping dead air) and pause, or just start playing. Once the first song/singer is cued up properly, I bring up the volume on kJams and get ready to hit Play. Once I'm there, I have it set to pause after each song, so as a song ends, it brings up the Rotation screen on the video output, auto-cues the next singer, and I hit Play when everyone's ready to go, mic in hand. If there's a false start, I click the autocue button (to the immediate right of the Next button) and restart the singer at the beginning of the song.

I know this went a bit beyond simple KJ Rotation stuff, but it never hurts to toss in some other info about successful workflows. You can complicate this as much as you wish with crossfading scripts, mixer activity, outside sources of bumper music - but the basics are normally just as I've stated.

>>Sedge

[Sedge]

Oh, one more thing - if things go sideways on you when you're live, DON'T PANIC - pushing a lot of buttons probably won't help. Instead, click on the stop button (big square). Find the song you want sung (regardless of the singer, search your Library real quick if you need to), click on it once to highlight it, and press spacebar to play it. While the singer is singing, take a long drink of a cool beverage, sort out where you're at, make any necessary changes to singer's lists and KJ Rotation. When the singer is done, click on Stop again (if it hasn't already.) Now, go to your Rotation screen (if you're not there already) and click on the next singer you want to select them (hopefully they are in position 1, if not, no biggie). Click on Play. Wait a second or three, then click on Pause (same button as play, now changed to Pause). Now, go to the Video menu and select Rotation. Your Rotation screen should come up, with the singer that is supposed to be singing next at the top, and you should be good to go.

Most anything else will just get you confused and flustered. If you're new to it, and haven't been playing along at home like I just recommended, it may take a little while to get your singer playlists and KJ Rotation/Rotation in order. No worries, fire up iTunes or an external music source, play a couple songs, and take a 10 minute break to sort it out. Nobody will really mind if you do this, and it's far better than screwing up your entire rotation and muxing up songs for several singers in a row, or worst case, crashing or stalling the software because it's doing unnecessary searches and sorts that you requested by getting too clicky and draggy. If that worst case happens, you can quit and restart kJams, and all your Rotation and singers and tonight lists and things will be right there where you left them. It's pretty rare that any kind of restart will disrupt the current state of kJams. It takes about 30 seconds to stop and restart, maybe a little more or less, depending on your Library size. It takes a lot longer to explain to everyone why everything is screwing up all over the place and they're not singing their proper song in the right order. (On restarts, kJams even tends to remember the position and size of the Video window - in case you were worried about that)

>>Sedge

[Steve Lynch]

dude, double thanks...

I feel a bit better now...

I''ve also got my other PC karaoke software running seamlessly with VMware Fusion, so if I get hosed. I can default to it. However, I'm really committed to using Kjams natively. I've just tried 3 or 4 times in the last few years, and just haven't been able to get to where I feel comfortable...

I've run my last 6 ot 7 shows with it, and aside from the thing with not being able to figure out how to move singers, I've been quite pleased.

[dave]

note: while a rotation is "running", you can NOT change the position of the CURRENT singer. that is, if someone is singing (their song is actually playing), then you can not drag reorder them into a different position, nor can you drop a different singer in front of them. it's only logical: in the real world you'd be physically replacing the person on the stage who is in the middle of their song.

if you REALLY want to do that, then you must STOP the rotation! (press the stop button, that's what it's for).

NOW you can drag reorder whoever to the top, the d-click them to start the rotation with them at the front.

did you read this?

http://karaoke.kjams.com/wiki/User_Sort_Order

and in fact you CAN reorder within the "rotation" list, as long as you keep within a single rotation. you can't move a singer from a future rotation into the current rotation at a different spot.