multiple sources/players

[Sedge]

This is a question I originally asked Dave directly, but I wanted to get other opinions and ideas as well, and since I looked here first for an answer and didn't find one, here goes...

My CAVS unit fried 2 days before a long weekend of hosting at the local pub.. To get a new one next-dayed to me would cost far more than this software.

How can I make the Rotation manager work with external songs (i.e. a singer brings his own disk, I want to play it in my VocoPro deck in the rack unit, but I somehow need to address his spot in line, etc.) - I don't think I really want to use the laptop as my sole source of karaoke anyway. I still have my VocoPro deck, and I will likely still replace my CAVS deck, that way I can take my time ripping all my cdg's. (I currently don't have a good drive for it anyway) and if I can keep my laptop Library low, perhaps I can coax a little better performance out of this G4 powerbook with 3/4 of a gig of ram (it maxes at 1.25G, and I have well over 10,000 songs total, counting all the CDGs.)

I've got gigs this weekend, and will likely have to rely on the good old textedit method of tracking my singers until I can figure this out - I thought about creating a 3 minute MP3, and just calling it "Mystery Song" or something, and referencing it each time I would be playing from a different source, but I don't see that serving the crowd too well - while it is "playing", my A/B video switch would of course be away from the laptop, and the mixing board would be muting the laptop, so back-to-back external tracks wouldn't necessarily give the crowd the benefit of seeing the Rotation anyway.

>>Sedge

[Sedge]

How can I make your playlist manager work with external songs (i.e. a singer brings his own disk)

(Dave)
i'll answer this in terms of kJams

1) wing it
singer walks up and hands you a disc, just stick it in and double click the track they want, it will stream off the disc. maintain your rotation on paper the old fashioned way

2) the real way
singer hands you a disc, then goes to get a drink at the bar, they're not up next any way
stick the disc in and rip the track the singer wants. singer comes back and picks up disc or whatever.
drag that ripped song onto that singer. (or right click on song and pick singer or new singer) singer is auto-cue'd into the rotation
adjust "KJ Rotation" as you see fit to order them
sit back and relax

as far as integrating it so it looks like it's all one system, yeah you've nailed a feature request i've had for a long time, a "proxy song", you enter the song name and artist and approximate duration on the fly (make a new proxy song, inside a singer), and it just puts up a title screen for the duration, or if it references a singer's actual disc, then when the singer gets up and the proxy song "starts", then you stick in the disc and it will read and play the right one (Streaming) and then eject the disc.

THANX DAVE!

(more back from me, Sedge)

Unfortunately, method 1&2 assume that I have a drive that can rip CD-G, and don't address the huge Library dragging down my G4 factor. This poor powerbook has a Matshita drive, so no way am I going to be able to pursue these methods (and trying to get a LAPTOP internal drive for Mac that will do it? I'm thinking near impossible, and if slightly possible, spendy. I'll be doing my CDG conversions using Audiograbber on a PC (same one I put into service to make my songbooks) and if the Samsung drive in it won't work to Rip, then I can plop down about $30 for a Lite-On that will - once they are in MP3+G format, I'll just copy them into my Powerbook and import them. I've already got many this way, so no big deal. (or only a big deal if I'm trying to do some sort of ripping or live cueing from CDG on the powerbook)

So, I'm all for the proxy song feature! Better yet if you could save the proxy song(s) to the library, perhaps with metadata or something that would reference actual disk # and track #. That way, you could slowly build your library of proxy songs to approximate your own actual collection. (or singers that bring their disks on a weekly basis) - I didn't see anything about this feature on the forum, so I'm really glad it's at least on the *distant* horizon. Notes for implementation - the track itself could be a 0.01 track, or something very similar to what is displayed for the rotation screen - just a static image that wouldn't go away until you clicked to cue the next singer, so while it may take up a little room in the database, the memory allocation/cache would be minimal.

And Dave's ALMOST INSTANT reply:

Unfortunately, method 1&2 assume that I have a drive that can rip CD-G

right, you'll need a lightscribe
http://karaoke.kjams.com/wiki/Compatible_Drives

and don't address the huge Library dragging down my G4 factor

yeah, you need a new macbook pro, IMHO

if AudioGrabber works on windows, then try using the same PC drive on the mac (use firewire or somehow?) that'll work with kJams.

the track itself could be a 0.01 track

the duration of the proxy track, when i implement that feature, will take no space no matter what the "duration", of course.
you can build graphic screens using Producer plugin (the tryout version will work fine)


So again, HUGE THANKS to Dave - I've already got my $110 worth in just customer service!

[Sedge]

Side note! just a thought that came from this experience...

I've heard a lot of wingeing from people trying to convert CAVS disks on their windoze boxen. The common line is "how to I rip CAVS disk to (pick your favorite format)" and the response is either "you have to use CAVS proprietary software (which is a nightmare that takes forever)" or "I dunno, dude - good luck!"

It's amazing that for the price of the Lite license, mac users are able to do this conversion easily, and end up with good usable files, although the graphics portion are still technically .mcg files and need to be decompressed to .CDG for most players - shoot, kJams probably would do this too, or certainly get it to mpeg4 or something else that will easily play on a PC, or re-burn to CDG disks, if needed.

I'm happier and happier to be a Mac user - the PC community may have a dozen crappy tools to do a half-arse job of a task, but again, Mac has one simple, easy to use tool that can do it all, and do it right.

(Dave, feel free to use any of this for testimonial or advertising purposes!)

Also, if kJams users want to get a bunch of music legally and cheap, I would start buying up any CAVS SCDG disks you can find. For only a couple hundred bucks, you could easily get a library of 1000's of songs, and even a 1000+ song song SCDG takes less than an hour to rip onto your Mac.. Imagine the time spent ripping 100 CDG disks to get the same result! There is real value when you think about the time you spent ripping.

[randyj]

The one time I ripped from a SCDG the sound came out as 128 kbps
...great for earbuds, less-than-ideal for a professional sound system

doing the math, 1000 songs on 4.7 GB "CD" (actually a DVD) works out to 4.7 MB per song. Subtract 1.0 MB for the graphics portion, and you end up with 3.7 MB for the music.

Looks like the original files on the disc are at 128 kbps. No thanks. (ripping at a higher bitrate gives you zero increase in quality.)

Is there such a thing as a SCDG with better quality? 500 songs would be good as long as the disc is full...

[dave]

yes, when kJams rips SCDG, it only copies what is on the disc directly, there is no encoding. audio is already encoded at whatever bitrate the manufacturer has decided, i just copy the already created MP3 off the disc. Your ripping preferences for encoding are completely ignored. If the disc has 128 kbps files, that's what you get, no way around it.

also, i copy the mcg file too yes, but the moment you play it, it gets converted to CDG in the cache, which you can pull out if you want (right click song reveal in finder) and use however you wish. or yes you could burn it to a regular disc.

[Sedge]

Looks like the original files on the disc are at 128 kbps. No thanks. (ripping at a higher bitrate gives you zero increase in quality.)

I think that first statement it a little confusing. If I'm doing the ripping, I generally choose 192kpbs as the optimal answer to file-size/quality tradeoffs.

All that said, I've had no issues with the sound quality of the SCDGs - granted, I'm only over a 400 watt system in a small neighborhood bar, but still, I'm not noticing the compression noises in the tracks or anything.

Besides, this would be a failing of the SCDG format in general, as it *does* use mp3 compression, and the CAVS players wouldn't be able to magically enhance the music tracks. I've heard many reasons why CAVS isn't worthy of being a professional product, but sound quality wasn't one of them I remember.

Of course, if 128kbps isn't good enough for you, then go buy lots of CDGs.

[Sedge]

I don't know how this upsets your math, but my big SCDGs are on dual-layer DVDs, so 8.5 GB for 1200 songs leaves 8+ MB per song. Still, (just checked an actual file from the NuTech disc) they're recorded at 128bps. I also checked one of the Chartbusters Essential discs (only 450 songs) and they're also recorded at 128kbps.

[dave]

I think you missed my point.

a SuperCDG disc ALREADY has MP3 files on it. You DON'T get to set the bit rate because they are ALREADY compressed at whatever rate the manufacturer has selected.

kJams only COPIES the EXISTING mp3 files off the disc, there is no encoding going on at all.

[Sedge]

Oh, no, Dave, I got your point. As it was I who gave the recommendation to pick up SCDGs as a cheap and legal way to get a big library of songs, I just did the research to confirm what my detractor had asserted - that the mp3s on SCDG discs are recorded at 128kbps. He has a fair point - if one is not happy with the sound quality of mp3 compression at 128kbps, then this concept/method won't work out.

I think I see where I derailed you though - I noted that I tend to rip at 192kbps. Of course, this wouldn't apply to SCDGs, only regular CDGs, DVDs, CDs, etc. Sorry I didn't specify this.

I certainly applaud you for having one of the select few systems that can apparently decode mcg without using CAVS windoze tools.

So, if you're not happy with 128kbps, ignore this whole idea!

[dave]