Something similar to -[space]

Anything about producer. Questions, bug reports, feature requests, whatever you want!
wolfgangubi
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Something similar to -[space]

Post by wolfgangubi »

Hey Dave

I love Producer, now that I have finally had time to play with it...

I just looked at a few video tutorials, which I highly recommend, and discovered your excellent trick of using -[space] to break up syllables in Tuneprompter. I would have never known that, par- ti- cu- lar- ly because it still displays in Tuneprompter with all the dashes.

Is there a similar short cut for notating how quickly the last word in a line should be sung? I have been going in with Producer and shortening the blocks to do this, but wonder if there is a better way.

One more thing about Tuneprompter relative to Kjams. I am finding that I am about 10ms slow on my syncing, so i have taken to replaceing my audio, after I do the syncing, with a second version of the song, which has 10ms of silence at the beginning. I just noticed that when I hit Shift-Command-I in KJams that a window appears with what seems to be an audio offset. Is that meant to do the same thing that I am doing?

Thanks!
Jeff

dave
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

Is there a ... short cut for notating how quickly the last word in a line should be sung?
no but that's on the list. I don't know exactly how to implement that, do you have any ideas? what would you like to see? how would it work best for you?
I just noticed that when I hit Shift-Command-I in KJams that a window appears with what seems to be an audio offset. Is that meant to do the same thing that I am doing?
Yes but you must set the settings in that dialog as the VERY FIRST THING you do to the song in Producer. when you change things in that dialog, it will DELETE all the changes you made to the blob timings and durations. So set that info FIRST, then after you change any timings you can never touch it again. this is simply a design limitation of the hack-y way it's put together at the moment. When I "fix" it using the real implementation, it will be more like GarageBand with multiple tracks and a global offset that you can set any time without destroying other settings.

wolfgangubi
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by wolfgangubi »

I would think the best way might be to have a character that denotes a "breath"... something like [space]∆ or [space]=, using a character that you could make invisible in the final version, the way you have made the dashes disappear. So in TunePrompter a lyric would be entered like

I can't get no =
Sat- is- fac- tion =
etc....

That would work well with how I work, but I know everyone is different...

EjFF

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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

but what would the duration be? we have to "invent" a duration for that, right? how can we possibly guess correctly always?

wolfgangubi
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by wolfgangubi »

Hmm... I think the duration could be 1ms, because (and correct me if I am wrong), Tuneprompter assumes that every word ends at the beginning of the next one. For example, when going into an instrumental break, Tuneprompter guesses for you how long that last word is, which is always far too long, but if we told tuneprompter there was another word, which was just = (or some such thing), so the real last word ended when the = was cued, and then you made the ='s invisible to Kjams it should accomplish that.

Unfortunately, I really have no idea how Kjams, or Tuneprompter does the magic it does, so I kind of feel like I am trying to tell Eddie Van Halen that he holds his pick wrong....

dave
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

well the way *I* see it is, maybe I'm Eddie Van Halen, but I want to know what song request my fans have, because i want to play the song you want to hear.

so in this case, what i'm asking for is what the default duration of the last word with an = on the end should be.

if the word is "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious=" you certainly don't want that word hiliting in 1ms, cuz that would be, well, wrong. you could break it up like this:

su- per- cal- i- fra- gil- is- tic- ex- pi- al- i- do- cious=

but again the duration of the sweep for "cious" would be 1ms? is that what you really want? I'd think it'd be more like 1/4 second? see what i'm saying?

wolfgangubi
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by wolfgangubi »

ah ha!

I see the confusion...

I meant the = would be something that we users would cue in Tuneprompter... for example

I can't get no =
would be five key strokes (instead of "i can't get no=" which is 4 keystrokes)

sat- is- fac- tion =
would also be five key strokes.

the length of the "no" and the "tion" would be determined by how soon the "=" was cued, and the length of the "=" could be 1ms, because you would do your KJams Producer programming magic to make the "="s disappear.

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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

oh, i get it. the true duration would be zero! :D

wolfgangubi
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by wolfgangubi »

Right, I forget there is a number smaller than 1! :D

DeusExMachina
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by DeusExMachina »

Not sure if you ever got around to implementing that, but it seems to me that the "=" character is not even necessary, since the CR char is already there, and Producer appears to be aware of it. All that is needed then is to add the functionality to edit the time to newline/page in producer.

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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

you already can edit the end time in producer, just pick up the edge of the blob and stretch it to your heart's content.

the feature request was to be able to enter a special char "=" into tune prompter and set the timing IN TUNEPROMPTER, so that kJams would magically know how long that last word should be.

no i haven't got around to it yet.

DeusExMachina
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by DeusExMachina »

Bump.
Yes, I am resurrecting an old thread, but just wanted to point out that this is already working. You can use any char you want even. I use "."
Just make sure it is separated from the word preceding it, and time it so that you hit space for that character as soon as the previous word is over.
KTP automatically stops the previous word to add the period.
Then in Producer, just go to the right page, select the period, and delete it. Then go to its defining blob and delete that. Done.

(And yes, you can also use the "=" sign.)

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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by dave »

an excellent suggestion!

DeusExMachina
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by DeusExMachina »

I am nothing if not the king of workarounds!
:)

franks
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Re: Something similar to -[space]

Post by franks »

Just an add on comment to the previous conversation for what it's worth.

When I use TunePrompter to initially start the process, I build two tracks in Garage band. The first track is a "full up" track that includes both the vocal and music plus any up front silence I may want to reserve for the KJAMS Producer Intro screen. The second track is the same, but with the vocal removed or reduced significantly(eg with Audacity).

I then import the full track into TunePrompter and sycnh lyrics at a very slow synch playback speed. I iterate until all lyrics light up when lyric vocals start. At this point, I do not worry whether TunePrompter stops the lyrics word "sweep" on time or not. The goal is to insure each lyric word starts on time and this is best done if you can hear the vocal clearly.

Next I play back TunePrompter at the normal song speed and confirm that the word sweeping initiation is OK. If not OK, then I tweak the synch "bars" at the slow playback speed and repeat until OK.

Once I'm satisfied I then select the second Track(without vocal) as the TunePrompter reference song track

Finally, I import TunePromter file into kJams, apply the Producer intro screen and adjust the lyric blobs ending point(not the starting point) to match the artist. Of course this approach assumes you are familiar enough with the tune to do this.

For Karaoke purposes this approach is more than adequate. A few milliseconds is of no consequence. And for more experienced or professional singers, they're listening to the music for their cues and the lyrics sweeping is just a convenience to prompt or remind then of the next set of verse(s). They generally know the melody and artist very well and the exact ending of a swept lyric word holds little meaning.

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