Running kJams in a VM

Just talk about kJams stuff with each other, describe things you did that worked, talk about your setup, anything that doesn't fit into the other forums!
HowardBrazee
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Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:56 am

Running kJams in a Virtual Machine.

If someone needs Catalina, they won’t be able to run kJams until it has been converted to 64-bits sometime next year. So I decided to create a Virtual Machine running Mojave, but using my kJams data. I am sharing my experience.

My iMac is a 2013 27” with Thunderbolt 1 sockets. My wife is planning on buying me a new Mac for Christmas. I can’t find adapters to allow me to run Thunderbolt 3 devices on my Mac. So I decided to try running kJams in a Virtual Machine. In the past I had Parallels and later, VM-Fusion to run Windows. I re-downloaded VM-Fusion and found that its latest version was 64-bit and could run on Catalina, so I upgraded to it.

Last time I upgraded Mojave, I created a memory card with a bootable drive: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372.

I installed VM-Fusion 11.5 and used the bootable memory card to install. Here’s where I started to find problems.It made a partition barely enough to hold Mojave. In fact there wasn’t room enough to upgrade to the newest version of Mojave. Also, when I installed kJams, it told me I have less than 4G of RAM and I needed more RAM.

I have VM-Fusion set up to create a new full-screen window, and it took me a bit to realize that to do its settings, I need to swap to a different screen, right-click VM-Fusion in the dock, and select “Virtual Machine Library”, to get it on the menu bar. I found where to resize the VM-Partition in “Settings Hard Disk”. I set it to 100GB, but wish I had made it smaller, as I don’t seem to be able to downsize it now.

From there I spent days trying to get Mojave’s Disk Utility/Partition to make a bigger partition. I still don’t know what I did to make it larger. Sometimes something would work and sometimes it wouldn’t. It’s supposed to be user-friendly, but in typical Apple fashion, we are supposed to understand without being told.

After this, I was able to install the Mojave update.

I saw running Activity Monitor in my “real” computer, that when I was using kJams in the VM, that it was using too much RAM. So I bought some RAM, figuring that I could transfer it to my new computer after Christmas. That may be a mistake, as not all RAM fits all iMacs. But kJams still thought I didn’t have enough RAM. So back to the VM-Fusion settings. Ahh, there’s one for Memory. I bumped it to 8000MB, which shows up in the VM as slightly different, and weird. But it works.

Installing kJams:
First thing, you I needed kJams later than 2.1b14r2. David fixed a bug which will be available in the next release.
Next, I deregistered my backup copy on my wife’s Mac, as I can only have 2 copies. I never used it.
Make /Music/kJams an alias to the following: /Volumes/VMware Shared Folders/Music/kJams

On my “real” computer, I gave everybody read and write access to the kJams folder. This may not be needed.

Even though my VM seems slow, kJams appears to work fine in my VM. I can run there, then run in my *real* machine, seeing the data have been updated. Next Friday I will do the *real* test connected to a couple of TVs for our Karaoke night.

If everything works fine, I can consider upgrading my Mac and my wife’s Mac to Catalina. I won’t do that unless I have plenty of time to revert in case things go wrong. Or I could wait until Christmas when I have a faster computer (which will already have Catalina on it). I told Time Machine to not back-up this VM, but make manual copies periodically, because it is a large file. May not be necessary.

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:01 pm

What howard is doing is keeping his "kJams" folder on his host computer (the one RUNNING the VM), and making an alias to that on the guest computer (the one running INSIDE the VM).

this is exactly the same procedure as "moving music plus all library settings".

yes there's a bug in the current release which prevents this from working but there will be an update early next week that fixes it.

-dave

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:37 am

I'm having a problem that hasn't been resolved yet. I didn't discover it until I went downstairs and hooked up my computer to the two TVs that I use when I run kJams there.

The VM does not see the TVs. I have two Thunderbolt/HDMI cords connecting my iMac to the TV sets, and when I run kJams in my real machine, it sees them. But that doesn't happen in the virtual machine.

I made a service request with VMware and haven't received a reply yet.

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:56 pm

yes you'd have to ensure that your VM is capable of multi-screen support. Parallels has this support for sure.

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:52 pm

I thought I would test the kJams server, even though I haven't been able to persuade anybody in my senior living to try it. (The person who brought an iPad has moved away. iPad browsers work).

For some reason, the kJams in my Fusion drive tries to use 192.168.198.128 and the kJams in my *real* Mojave uses 192.168.0.10. Is there a place I override the Fusion drive's kJams address?

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:17 pm

you have to set your VM software to use "bridge mode" for the virtual networking that it provides to the guest OS

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:43 am

The fix for bridge mode was:

- Click on option 'virtual machine'-->network adapter
- If its nat change it to bridge or if its bridge change it to nat

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:45 am

VM-Fusion support talked with me. Apparently the Fusion VM can handle pass-through to USB ports, but she didn't know about pass-through to Thunderbolt ports. She will get back to me.

I use Thunderbolt ports to connect to TVs for Karaoke. My Mac sees them, but the VM doesn't see them.

Peel
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by Peel » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:52 pm

Do you know if Fusion VM can run Mojave if the Macbook itself cannot natively run Mohave? The reason I ask is that my 2012 MacBook Pro is on it's last legs, and I am interested in getting the new 16" MacBook Pro when it is released later this year. Of course, being a new computer Catalina will be the oldest operating system it can run. So I'm curious under this setup if a VM would be able to run a version of the OS older than the hardware.

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:37 pm

i think it might actually be able to yes. but i do not know. try it, and please let us know!

-dave

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:27 am

It looks as though this experiment is a failure for me. Whether VM-Fusion is full screen or windowed, I don't seem to be able to have my kJams Karaoke windows on the TVs connected via my Thunderbolt ports.

Too bad I spent $50 for that Fusion update.

So my next experiment is to try creating a Mojave dual-boot partition.

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:08 am

has VMWare gotten back to you and flat out told you they do not support multiple monitors? if so, that's pretty terrible and they should refund your purchase. Parallels DEFINITELY supports multiple monitors.

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:58 pm

VMware gave me this link: https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1032440

SVGA only. No accelerated 2D or 3D graphics.
Support text drag-and-drop/copy-and-paste between macOS host and macOS guest.
Support file drag-and-drop between macOS host and macOS guest.
No support for file copy-and-paste between macOS host and macOS guest.
No support for Unity.
No multimonitor support in full screen.
Mac OS X Server guests do not support sound.

I tried it in windowed screen and that didn't work either.

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dave
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by dave » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:01 pm

okay well, i recommend you request a refund from VMWare, as they seem to not support multiple monitors.

then get Parallels.

HowardBrazee
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Re: Running kJams in a VM

Post by HowardBrazee » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:56 am

The person who helped me offered that, and when I accepted told me:

I completely understand and honor your decision. I will be raising a refund query shortly and will update you with the Support Request number as well.

The refund team will then be updating you with the process.

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