Order of Singers

Just talk about kJams stuff with each other, describe things you did that worked, talk about your setup, anything that doesn't fit into the other forums!
Nick Burrett
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Order of Singers

Post by Nick Burrett »

This isn't a problem with kJams - it's a problem with my venue. I'm hoping to find some good advice here!

How do people handle the situation where the same person appears on multiple requests, for example...

Abbie
Abbie & Chris
Dave
Nick
Chris & Nick

So Abbie sings first, but does she sing again because Chris wants to sing, or should she go to the back of the list?

Or... do you only accept one name per request to make it fair?

TezinOz
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by TezinOz »

Yes...I have this problem too. It also impacts on singer's histories being spread out across all the different names - eg when The normal duet partner is not there and they want to grab someone else.
Also, as you pointed out, they get to sing a lot more than they should unless you keep adjusting the KJ Rotation.

My thoughts are to limit to one singer one entry. At my venue I have about 60 regulars, but there are about 150 variations in the list due to this very situation.

Going forward I'm going to a single entry by deleting the variations (but remember to copy their histories into the favorites folder of the individual singer)

I too would be interested in how others handle this.

Karanight
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Karanight »

I find that often if you listen to the "Duet Singer" that's doing the duet their not really into singing but the singer who want's to get up singing more that anyone else in the venue is pushing the Duet Singer into doing duets. It's not always the case but if your coming across this then what I found works is as follows

Jan sings on her own (my experience it's normally females that want to sing more than their fair share (I'm not being sexist))
Sam wants to sing a duet with Jan
Peter want to sing a duet with Jan
ETC
Put Sam's and Peter's duet songs in Jan's tonight folder
You'll find most of the time Sam and Peter don't complain that their not getting up to sing - if they do complain often it will be Jan who's pushing Sam & Peter to complain. You need to fob them of a bit and see if they continue to complain. If they do then maybe (Just maybe) they really do want to sing the song with Jan.

If I feel I have to put the "Duet" on I would move Jan's folder position to be just above the Duet singers folder
i.e. Jan sings in her normal position. 6 song's later you need to put Peter on singing a duet with Jan, I would move Jan's folder so that it's on top of Peter's, then the next rotation everyone in the venue isn't getting annoyed that Jan is singing more that anyone else

I've found that singers learn that your not going to be fooled into putting "Duets" on to give Jan more songs than anyone else in the venue. and the duet's stop being put in after a few weeks.
You really need to be firm in your resolve doing this but it does pay off.

One way to find out if this is happening is see if Peter & Sam are regular singers on their own or is it that their always doing duets.... if their always doing duets then they might be being pushed into doing the duets to give Jan an unfair number of songs on the night

I always do this and I've found that most folk doing genuine duets don't complain and just live with it, the genuine duet singers that do complain I just say "O I'm sorry, your on next" then create a folder for them, remembering to delete the song in Jan's tonight list (And move Jan's folder as I mentioned above)

TezinOz I NEVER let someone sing a song unless they have put the song in

TezinOz

when The normal duet partner is not there and they want to grab someone else.
I NEVER let this happen because if the correct duet singer turns up and they did want to sing the duet you have to put them on again to sing the same song that just been sung.
What I do in this situation I stop the track (If it's playing) and I call the next singer up telling the duet singer to wait until the correct singer is back. When a singer just grabs another singer, that to me is proof of my suspicions and many times when the correct duet singer has turned up I tell them they missed their turn but they'll be on next, 9 times out of 10 they say they didn't really want to sing and they wouldn't mind if someone else does their part anyway.

Another thing I won't allow is some singers might put slips in with their name and then other slips with their nickname on it. I create singers called Peter and Pan.
Later when Peter's sung his song I call up Pan and lo and behold Peter turns up with a big grin on his face, arm outstretch to take hold of the mic.
In this situation I click the track forward and tell Peter Pan they'll have to wait their turn
Posted by Len of LensKaraoke fame

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dave
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by dave »

an alternative, and to see if they REALLY want to do duets, is to say "you get ONE turn per rotation, regardless"

that way if peter and jane sing a duet, neither peter nor jane can do another song 'till the next rotation.

this fixes the problem of a table of five singing five "duets" where they're all on stage for five songs in a row.

Karanight
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Karanight »

If this was Facebook I'd put a "Like" to that
Posted by Len of LensKaraoke fame

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Tashmoo
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Tashmoo »

I find people want to do duets with some of the better singers.
If Sam and Peter want to sing with Jan, they can do it on THEIR turn in the rotation. They can bring up a guest (Jan), and I announce it that way.
In the case of a table of 5 who put duets in one after another, just re-order them throughout the rotation, and announce one singer's name with the guest.

I've found by doing it this way in these 2 situations, the other singers won't think you're favoring any one in particular and they'll realize you are actually following the rotation.

dave
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by dave »

:shock:

DeusExMachina
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by DeusExMachina »

I am of the "one song per rotation camp", with exceptions. First, as mentioned, there are occasionally "reluctant singers", those who are doing the duet just because the other person wants/needs them up there. You can usually tell this just through observation. I do not penalize them for this, though I will bump them down a few slots if they are too soon after the duet.
Second, some duets are really duets in name only, where the duet part has maybe on line in a five minute song. In those cases, whoever has that lead part has used up his/her slot, regardless. In that event, I put it on them that they agree to do it, regardless of how reluctant they claim to have been.
Third, if they are just up too many times, no matter how they got up there.

The real issue for me is people who put themselves in under different names, or worse, are put in by their friends, under their friends' names, maybe even without their knowledge. And there is no way to tell in advance, especially if you are using server, or they have their slips (how quaint) brought up by someone else. At some point you have to risk a politically awkward situation of skipping them after they have already come up to the mic, and their song has already started.

But that is why my Rotation screen says "Subject to change".
Speaking of which, you can minimize it somewhat by using ShowScreens that announce the policy. I use a nice graphic implying "gluttony".
Last edited by DeusExMachina on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Karanight
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Karanight »

DeusExMachina wrote:The real issue for me is people who put themselves in under different names, or worse, are put in by their friends, under their friends names, maybe even without their knowledge. And there is no way to tell in advance, especially if you are using server, or they have their slips (how quaint) brought up by someone else. At some point you have to risk a politically awkward situation of skipping them after they have already come up to the mic, and their song has already started.
I have no qualms whatsoever skipping a singer that does this. Their cheeky enough to think that their so important that they think they should be up to sing more than anyone else in the venue so why should I worry. They end up with egg on their face having got up to sing (out of turn) and everyone else in the venue knows that the singer is just trying it on.
Skip them each time they do this and they soon learn you won't put up with it and stop the gluttony.
Posted by Len of LensKaraoke fame

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dave
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by dave »

:shock:

DeusExMachina
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by DeusExMachina »

What I mean is, the problem of the person who is "reluctant" to surrender the mic. There have been… issues.

Karanight
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Karanight »

If a singer refuses to hand the mic back I won't leave the volume turned up, I turn the volume off and use another mic to call the next singer up, the singer who was refusing to hand the mic bank either gives me the mic back or they hand it to the next singer. I've done this many times with different singers at deferent venues and never had a problem and again, the singers learn I won't put up with there bad behaviour.
Posted by Len of LensKaraoke fame

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DeusExMachina
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by DeusExMachina »

You have a very different crowd! I too turn volume off on problematic patrons, but many are so unsocialized that they simply respond by swinging the mic, or yelling louder, or staying by the mic stand and bothering the next singer as they try to sing the next track!

Karanight
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by Karanight »

DeusExMachina wrote:but many are so unsocialized that they simply respond by swinging the mic,
Firstly I use cordless mic's. No Swinging But if a singer is misusing the mic I take it from them and if there's a problem I turn all the volume off (Music) and then I normally get the mic back without difficulty. I tell the fool misusing the mic (and I consider hitting the mic with their hand making a thud sound come from the speakers to be misusing the mic) that the mic cost a couple of hundred £ and if they damage it no one else can sing, incidentally if a singer does hit the mic with their hand the mic volume goes off and that gets the idiots attention, I then ask them not to bang the mic as they could break it.
DeusExMachina wrote: or yelling louder, or staying by the mic stand and bothering the next singer as they try to sing the next track!
Ban them from singing again. The singer that's trying to enjoy themselves singing is having their enjoyment curtailed and it's my job to make sure their not intimidated by idiots. If singers don't feel they can come along to karaoke without being intimidated they'll stop coming and your just left with fools
That's what I do and I've been threatened by thugs so that's possibly when the landlord has to come into play. If I don't get the support from a landlord I wouldn't go back to that venue. I've never been attacked by a drunk because I've always had the support that anyone working at a venue deserves.
It's really a matter of educating the audience, if your firm at the start most problems don't arise and on the rarer occasions that problems do arise it's easier to deal with
Posted by Len of LensKaraoke fame

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djunod
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Re: Order of Singers

Post by djunod »

Time to call the bouncer.

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