Songbook Software

[DeusExMachina]

Even the G4 is overkill (but in a nice way!) I make do with a bunch of G3 iBooks that I bought destroyed and refurbed them. Even at 600MHz, they out perform my XP touch screens at almost twice that (I miss PPC). Certainly they do the job, and for not much more than printing books.

[DeusExMachina]

I suspect this will be my territory.
Netbooks:
•Suck. Period. Too small to convey much useful information, and keyboards and trackpads are an exercise in both frustration and creative excuse-making for why they suck to the person using them. I have had to do that a lot. Also keep in mind that the Sylvania runs the aptly named WinCE, and therefore you are back to non-BonJour territory.

•I have not used 7" tablets, but I fear they may suffer the same issues, though perhaps not quite as badly. I was hoping that the Android version of WTKJams would help that, interface-wise, but the experience for new singers is all but indecipherable, so I am not sure that is the way to go now. In fact, I have considerable issues even with the web page with new singers, who sit down and IMMEDIATELY ask "What's the password?", without noticing, or even apparently looking for, the "New Singer" button. As a side note, one of the problems with the Sylvania TABLETS is that they turn off WiFi whenever they go to sleep, so they have to have WiFi MANUALLY turned back on and then manually be reconnected to the network, and then, since they also do not support BonJour, they have to have the numerical IP address reentered into the browser. There is no setting to fix this.
Also note that the BonJour issue should not exist for ICS/JB, as they use Chrome as the browser, which has BonJour (since it is Apple WebKit-based) even though Google has sat on their fat asses and failed to write a UI front end for it, despite years of complaints on their forum boards.

The problem with using either WiFi or bluetooth proximity alarms is that there will be a time lag before they activate, thus making intervention less likely, and also if you are going to rely on the tablets themselves sounding the alarm, the chances that they will heard over the din at the bar is low. Kennsington locks are also a bad solution, because the cables have a huge chance of knocking of drinks and snagging on item on the tables.

So far I have found no ideal solution. Would love to find a retail store going out of business so I could buy their anti-theft tags/sensor, but so far, I just rely on trust/policing by the regulars.

[Kjeph2]

DM, as usual, you are a wealth of knowledge!

Netbooks: I guess I'm stuck with old 13" laptops until I can find a 10"+ netbook w/decent kybd/trkpad for <$100. I just wish they weren't so heavy, carrying 3 old 8#ers plus my 17"MBP and other gear is a PAIN.

Tablets: As long as drunk fingers can handle the on-screen typing, I will give this a try. Tho I wish I had gone with a 10" capacitive instead of the 7" resistive screen. LOL

Question: Do all the sylvania products (tablet and netbooks) log off wifi when they sleep? anyone found a way to defeat their sleep mode thru code tinkering?

New singer confusion: As stated before, I plan to cut down on confusion with QR code shortcuts: 1 for connecting to the bar wifi, and the 2nd for getting them onto my IP/kjams web server w/o bonjour. I will have wallpapers and screen savers with instructions for new singers, with blank spaces alotted for the QR codes I generate at that venue. Singers can scan and use their phone, or use the laptop station to sign up. I just wish i could personalize the text on the kjams server to put a bright red giant "1ST TIMERS MUST CLICK "NEW SINGERS" TO START" on the top of the kjams login window, hehe.

Security: I didn't consider the cable hassle, but since there is no bluetooth proximity alarm app (new side project, DEM?), I guess it's cables. Unless I can paint the casing bright neon orange or neon lime green, and plaster it with stickers warning of gps tracking and bodily harm. LOL I'm starting a new venue with NO regulars, so it's a concern.

anyone else tried other solutions?

[DeusExMachina]

I certainly understand the weight issue. My first set of machines was 5 G3 iBooks, supplemented by 2 tiny Toshiba LifeBooks with touch screens. While they sound like the ideal solution, they only have 256MB or RAM, soldered to the main board, an NO expansion sockets. Contrary to claims elsewhere, XP does NOT like to run in only 256MB. At all! It would sometimes, take up to half an hour to restart the machines to the point of launching a browser, and as much as five minutes to come fully out of sleep. And there is no real way to optimize, or install Linux, because they have no optical drive, and do not support either USB boot or Netboot.

One other option to consider is a small desktop tower running a multiuser Linux. With separate video cards and USB ports, you can run several users simultaneously, each with their own monitor and input devices, all on a single box. Though that solution works better for more permanent-type installs.

As far as tablets are concerned, you can always get external keyboards/stands, and forgo the onscreen keyboard, either bluetooth, or USB (no Bluetooth on most of the Sylvania tablets).

As for the Sylvania products (tablet and netbooks) logging off wifi when they sleep, that is an Android issue (GOD does Android stink!) In particular, the Sylvania tablets have an actual hardware WiFi switch (in 2012!!!) but the OS does NOT respect that switches setting, and can be turned on when it is set to off, and turns itself off when it is set to on, so the switch essentially serves no functional purpose. So again, they are an exercise in frustration. I can say nothing about their 7" WinCE netbooks, because I didn't bother with the because, though cheap, WinCE is essentially useless.

Re: QR code shortcuts, I think you may be overestimating people. I suspect many people will have no idea what to do with QR codes, and will be flumoxed. If they can't even see the "New Singer" button and figure out how to use it….
While it will make things theoretically easier, I predict that you will end up spending a LOT of time, running around showing people what to do. That said, I could be 100% wrong.

As for the New Singer page on server, my hacked login page has re-coloured the "New Singer" button green, which has cut down on people not seeing it (and hence the dumb questions I get about what the password is) but it has still not eliminated it entirely. I have added a considerable amount of code to may pages, much of which I have made available to download from the *Code section of the kJams website wiki.

One thing I was doing with my iBooks was that I had a BonJour IM client running on each one, via iChat, so people could chat with me, ask questions, etc. Each machine had a name, and I could identify which one was which by that name in the chat window. I then used a Dashboard widget that I hacked to always remain floating above all windows, even when Dashboard was inactive and hidden, that when clicked brought iChat to the top, and opened a chat window. From there, I set my IM client on my main machine (Adium) to alert me when they went offline. Thus, if someone walked off with one (or shut the lid, which, BTW, was very annoying, because why they would think shutting a clearly public machine and putting it to sleep was a good idea, I never did figure out!) a Growl alert would pop up saying that that particular laptop had disconnected. Although there was a time lag, it was better than nothing.

I had planned on moving to tablets, mostly for the weight considerations, as well as the fact that one by one the iBooks bit the dust due to the infamous graphic chip defect, but I got burned on a set of 10" Sylvanias I bought, so I am stuck with two surplus MacBooks (which I am not happy to have to leave out) and a crappy HP laptop donated to the cause.

All that said, I am curious how heavily you are currently using server, because there is major bug buried deep in the kJams code that has me crashing as many as three times every ten minutes, whenever server is on. If you are successfully running with server on and using it as the main method of song selection for patrons, I would be VERY interested in hearing about it, so that I (and Dave, I suspect) can possibly figure out what the heck is going on.

[Kjeph2]

As for the Sylvania products (tablet and netbooks) logging off wifi when they sleep, that is an Android issue (GOD does Android stink!)

Is that an android-on-netbook issue? cuz I've hacked several android phones, and I've never had an issue with restarting wifi after "waking up".

Re: QR code shortcuts, I think you may be overestimating people. I suspect many people will have no idea what to do with QR codes, and will be flumoxed. If they can't even see the "New Singer" button and figure out how to use it….
While it will make things theoretically easier, I predict that you will end up spending a LOT of time, running around showing people what to do. That said, I could be 100% wrong.

This is a military area bar, mostly navy guys/gals, mostly young. And my all my QR codes will have a big "SCAN ME" on top, as well as smaller print instructions on how to DL scanner from market, etc. Bigger issue in a bar is lighting: if I have the screen dark enough to stop the "washout" from camera scanner, then the rest looks very dark. and printouts have to be near some light source or they dont scan. lol

As for the New Singer page on server, my hacked login page has re-coloured the "New Singer" button green, which has cut down on people not seeing it (and hence the dumb questions I get about what the password is) but it has still not eliminated it entirely. I have added a considerable amount of code to may pages, much of which I have made available to download from the *Code section of the kJams website wiki.

I will be seeking this out, lol

One thing I was doing with my iBooks was that I had a BonJour IM client running on each one, via iChat, so people could chat with me, ask questions, etc.

iChat sounds cool, but requires all stations run mac os, so too pricey for me (even with old ibooks)

All that said, I am curious how heavily you are currently using server, because there is major bug buried deep in the kJams code that has me crashing as many as three times every ten minutes, whenever server is on. If you are successfully running with server on and using it as the main method of song selection for patrons, I would be VERY interested in hearing about it, so that I (and Dave, I suspect) can possibly figure out what the heck is going on.

I haven't started this venue yet, and have only used the webserver at home and at 1 halloween party. works great at home, but at my friends party, none of the phones or stations could get onto the kjams server. they were all on the wifi, but the IP address kept showing an unknown page. very frustrating. No offense, but I really hope that bug is just from something you hacked on, lol. I need this thing to work!

anyone else having issues with web server use? chime in!

[DeusExMachina]

•WiFi turning off is an Android-on-cheap-hardware issue, where they try to cover the fact that they have crappy battery life by doing everything in their power to turn every thing possible off so that the tablets last longer than a couple hours. Better hardware with better batteries does not do this.
•We'll just have to see about the QR codes. Life has the final say!
•I have not uploaded my newest NewSinger page code with the coloured New Singer button (Which I renamed "Create New Singer" to further reduce confusion). Let me know if you want it.
•There are other IM clients that will work, just find one that supports BonJour Chat (pretty sure Trillian on Windows/Linux does). As for making easily accessible, you'll have to rely on familiarity, luck, or actively showing people it's there, I suspect.
•The bug is definitely not just me. There are a few others. I just use server a LOT so I am the canary in the coal mine. The issue basically involves server entries changing the Rotation playlists out from under kJams. I reduce its frequency of making me crash by staying OFF kJR and Rot. whenever possible. Dave and I have hammered at it both with my code as well as the default server code. It makes no difference. Also, the iOS apps crash it as well, so there's that.
That said, Dave [may] be close to a resolution, and in the meantime I am working on a crazy idea of mine for a backup app that runs in the background, automatically running VLC and playing the exact same track as kJams is currently playing, at the same time, muted behind the video window. If and when you crash, it will sense it, jump to full screen, and unmute the audio, hopefully right about where the singer was, so they shouldn't notice much of a glitch. We'll see how well this idea actually works in practice. If I get it working (I have just overcome my greatest hurdle, hacking VLC to be able to play the files directly from the kJams cache) I will post the code here (Mac only though, since there is no universal scripting language for Windows, so I can't do much there).

[Karanight]

I am working on a crazy idea of mine for a backup app that runs in the background, automatically running VLC and playing the exact same track as kJams is currently playing, at the same time, muted behind the video window. If and when you crash, it will sense it, jump to full screen, and unmute the audio, hopefully right about where the singer was, so they shouldn't notice much of a glitch. We'll see how well this idea actually works in practice. If I get it working (I have just overcome my greatest hurdle, hacking VLC to be able to play the files directly from the kJams cache) I will post the code here (Mac only though, since there is no universal scripting language for Windows, so I can't do much there).

WOW!!!!

[Douglas]

•WiFi turning off is an Android-on-cheap-hardware issue, where they try to cover the fact that they have crappy battery life by doing everything in their power to turn every thing possible off so that the tablets last longer than a couple hours. Better hardware with better batteries does not do this.
•We'll just have to see about the QR codes. Life has the final say!
•I have not uploaded my newest NewSinger page code with the coloured New Singer button (Which I renamed "Create New Singer" to further reduce confusion). Let me know if you want it.
•There are other IM clients that will work, just find one that supports BonJour Chat (pretty sure Trillian on Windows/Linux does). As for making easily accessible, you'll have to rely on familiarity, luck, or actively showing people it's there, I suspect.
•The bug is definitely not just me. There are a few others. I just use server a LOT so I am the canary in the coal mine. The issue basically involves server entries changing the Rotation playlists out from under kJams. I reduce its frequency of making me crash by staying OFF kJR and Rot. whenever possible. Dave and I have hammered at it both with my code as well as the default server code. It makes no difference. Also, the iOS apps crash it as well, so there's that.
That said, Dave [may] be close to a resolution, and in the meantime I am working on a crazy idea of mine for a backup app that runs in the background, automatically running VLC and playing the exact same track as kJams is currently playing, at the same time, muted behind the video window. If and when you crash, it will sense it, jump to full screen, and unmute the audio, hopefully right about where the singer was, so they shouldn't notice much of a glitch. We'll see how well this idea actually works in practice. If I get it working (I have just overcome my greatest hurdle, hacking VLC to be able to play the files directly from the kJams cache) I will post the code here (Mac only though, since there is no universal scripting language for Windows, so I can't do much there).

This is the complete info. Thanks a lot.

[dave]