iMac home karaoke hardware setup with displayPort

[fishmongr]

Hi Dave! Love your software and support.
I have another noob setup question for you if you could be so gracious as to help me out.
I am setting up a home karaoke set-up and am confused with the hardware setup.

I have an iMac that uses a displayPort->HDMI converter to pipe both audio/video to my A/V Receiver to display video on my TV and audio through my surround system.
I am in the process of buying hardware to complete this setup. From reading the forums it seams i need wireless mics and a mixer (with preamp?).
I am looking at these wireless mics btw:
http://www.amazon.com/VocoPro-UHF-3205- ... =1-2-fkmr0
http://www.amazon.com/Hisonic-HSU482H-4 ... 99&sr=1-34

I want to have the mics hooked up to the mixer hooked up to the computer which then pipes both the music/video and mic audio to the TV, does this sound
reasonable and normal?
What is the preferred connection between the wireless mic receiver and the mixer, 1/4 jack or XLR (and mixed or separate)?
What is the preferred connection between the mixer and the computer, firewire, usb, or stero mini jack?
Is there a mixer/pre-amp you'd recommend for this setup?
Much thanks!
Mark

[dave]

well, you first have to decide if you can live with the latency of going digital with your mics. when you pipe the mics thru the computer, you introduce a delay. until they invent the "Audio Digitizer Flux Capacitor" there is no physical way around this.

If you can NOT live with latency, you'll need to have an analog mixer between your computer and your TV: you go computer headphone jack audio out to the mixer, and the mics plug directly into the mixer, then the mixer outputs to your speakers (generally NOT your TV, but could be)

if you CAN live with latency, then i'd recommend a MOTU UltraLight (it has both XLR and 1/4 inch jacks and includes pre-amp).

[fishmongr]

Thanks for the super quick feedback Dave.
I was hoping to keep the cables to a minimum as the computer and tv/speakers/av receiver are on different sides of the room but it looks like i'd probably need to pipe the audio/video separately.

This is the same Motu you are referring to?
http://www.amazon.com/MOTU-UltraLite-MK ... 513&sr=1-3
Seams like it might be overkill for my needs and a bit pricey. Would this suffice?
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-502-5-I ... =1-1-fkmr0
Thanks!
Mark

[dave]

yes the MOTU at amazon is the same one.

no, the cheap one does not do what the MOTU does.
the MOTU is a Digital mixer. plug all your mics (and instruments or whatever) into it, and it connects to the computer via FireWire for minimum latency, then the computer mixes that with the kJams audio and sends it out your DisplayPort thru one cable to the TV.

the other mixer you link to is analog. if you want to use that, you plug your mics *AND COMPUTER* (via headphone jack) into it, then connect it's output to your speakers.

[fishmongr]

Ah sorry I misread what you were saying. Great to hear this option is available to reduce latency. I think all my questions are answered. Now to dwell. Thanks!

[dave]

[fishmongr]

Hi Dave,
I did end up placing an order for the Motu but upon doing some more research I ended up canceling it and ordering the Apogee Duet:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/pr ... sku=234444
Its 50 bucks cheaper, still has 2 pre-amped XLR inputs, firewire, and is tiny and sleek without all the extra ports I wouldn't be using.
It doesn't have the hardware dsp effects though but I think I can live with that.

What do you think? I want to make sure I am not making a mistake here.
Thanks!
Mark

[dave]

wow, for $500 you aren't getting much with this device, pretty much all it provides is a pre-amp. i think you could get a pre-amp for much less. your microphone jack will already do everything else. the mic jack that is built into your computer is either 1 stereo or 2 mono, which is exactly the same as what this device has (not including pre-amp), so you spent a lot of money for no gain (pun!). yes, you get XLR jacks, but you could just buy XLR cables for $30, and plug them into a cheap pre-amp, then into headphone jack.

the MOTU lets you plug in 2 mics PLUS 6 other mono inputs (or 3 more stereo inputs) (mics, instruments, computers, whatnot), that's what you're paying for really, the ability to plug in 8 microphones. sorry for some reason i thought you needed more than 2 microphones (2 for singers and 1 for you, the host, to do the MC stuff)

[fishmongr]

Thanks for the advice David, I really do appreciate your feedback. The Motu does sound like a great deal but for my needs it seams that the Apogee is it, grant it either one would easily fit my needs.

In my research I found that "Audio Interface" is just the correct term for "sound card" and the Motu Ultralite and Apogee Duet are both on the top regarding external firewire "sound cards". The Motu is a no-brainer when it comes to features but I've never seen a piece of hardware rated more highly then the Duet (17 five star ratings out of 17 on amazon, etc) even compared to the Ultralite. Its true that the Duet doesn't do too much in the way of ports, but it does exactly what I need with the smallest foot print. From what I've read it has impressive Core Audio support with much of its controls/configuration being software based and fills my need for low latency mixing where the regular mic jack / sound card wouldn't be as efficient.

I wanted to make my approach, options, and decisions available in this thread so others in a similar boat can weigh the same options.
I'll update again when I receive my hardware and have everything set up.
Thanks!
Mark

[dave]

i don't think you'll get lower latency than the built in mic jack of the computer. but there's no pre-amp on that either.

[DeusExMachina]

Wow, this entire set up is the definition of overkill. Unless there is something else you are using all that hardware for, you are adding lots of "stuff" in there that really servers no real purpose!
A far simpler, and yet more effective setup would be to take the headphone jack output and connect via either 1/8" TRS to RCA or 1/8"TRS to dual 1/4 phone plug to a mixer. Plug your other audio gear, such as mics, in to the mixer as well. From there, you can either go straight from the mixer to the TV with the relevant cables (probably 1/4" TRS to RCA) or to an amp and speakers, or, if your mixer is powered, straight to the speakers.

Doing it the way you are doing is TWO orders of magnitude more expensive, and introduces problems that make using it far more complicated!
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

(Also, check out kJams market in the next day or so, as I will be posting a bunch of stuff for sale that might help.)

[dave]

yeah, i was trying to preserve the "one cable from the mac to the TV" thing, but perhaps it makes more sense to just advise that "that makes it more expensive and complicated"

so yeah, an analog mixer between the computer and the speakers is cheaper and much easier to deal with. but you give up the ability to use your HDMI cable for sound.

[DeusExMachina]

So add a video mixer with HDMI out.
Though what advantage you get with audio over HDMI, I don't know, since you have to get it there with a cable somehow

[dave]

i think the advantage was "one cable from the mac to the TV".

[DeusExMachina]

You could theoretically got from mixer to audio-in on the mac, and then route everything back out through the HDMI